That’s Ms. Senator, If You’re Nasty

Aliens related by blood?

By: waquino | Tue, 06/23/2009 - 16:51

This is a good example of the gulf of knee-jerk distrust between many Southerners and many coastal types.

Maybe this makes a difference: In absurdly individualistic California, there is no commonly used respectful form of address - so the only time you ever normally hear "ma'am" or "sir" is from authority figures politely emphasizing their authority over you ("Ma'am, do you know how fast you were going?") and people like telemarketers, whose overpoliteness strongly suggests that they are being insincere. In other words, disrespectfully - but covertly disrespectful.

Add in many Californians' self-congratulatory (and not totally groundless) fear of Southern/military manners as camouflage for racists and sexists - and many Southerners' self-congratulatory (and not totally groundless) belief that Californians are smug, useless cancers that selfishly look down on everyone else - and then watch the blind firefight ensue over the assumed insults and disrespect oozing from the bad people we imagine are represented by this "snooty, hyper-sensitive West Coast female" senator and this "overbearing, probably sexist" army general (who went to college in New York btw).

Now that I live in the South, it feels really good to be able to show respect to ladies of a certain age in the store or when I walk by them on the street (which has always been a knotty problem in the past). But I still won't be calling anyone "ma'am" when I'm in California - unless I become an LAPD officer or car salesman. "Ma'am" doesn't mean the same thing in Jackson as it does in San Francisco, but apparently one side has the job of showing respect by accepting the other group's view of reality. But which side is it going to be? I encourge my California people to be the ones, but strangely they are just as stubborn as the supposedly unreasonable people of the South. If only we had fewer immediate problems so we could spend even a minute of our time on the luxury of mutual understanding...

The video clip blurs the perception

By: BeachBum | Tue, 06/23/2009 - 15:12

I think she had evey right to ask to be called Senator. The video makes her appear a little whiny, but again, we overly criticize women and judge them harshly when they assert themselves - here we're doing it again. And if he was giving her the run around then she had every right to pull him up short, not just on her title but on his testimony.
But the senators and the representatives, men and women, have got to start demanding accountability from everyone if they want to be left with a shred of respect. They are the people's guardians, so far, they'v been leaving the barn door open too many times.

Sounds like she has issues...

By: Twilight506 | Tue, 06/23/2009 - 11:23

The man was just being respectful (it's a military thing... and a Southern thing too, I'm 26 and am totally used to being called ma'am). No matter what her justification, it just sounds petty. Yes, we know you're a Senator. Good for you. Do you want a cookie? (Sorry, I'm just a little cynical when it comes to politicians. I haven't been very impressed with their handling of this whole economic issue). Her little complaint sounds more like she has personal issues like a lack of self-confidence. No man would have complained about being called "Sir" (Tom Cruise's movie persona not withstanding)

Misunderstanding

By: phpeter | Tue, 06/23/2009 - 10:43

Yes Boxer looked foolish.

The standards in the military dictate that a superior be referred to as Ma'am or Sir. This is more about Sen. Boxer being uber-sensitive and ignorant to this use rather than it being a form of disrespect. Anybody who has ever been in the military or has been around it knows that this is how deference is shown (not suprising that many Senators don't know this). By requesting he use her title rather than the deferential ma'am, it has the opposite effect of making them seem more like equals.

Don't worry!

By: nashvillekvetch | Mon, 06/22/2009 - 13:26

Fear not, like all things polite, ma'am will go the way of the dodo soon enough. Raised in Atlanta, by native Atlantans, I was expected to address adults by sir and ma'am, as well as their title and last name - Miss Jones, Dr. Smith, etc.

I still do it. Now that I'm 35, many of my parents' friends have asked me to called them by their first name, but I won't do so unless asked.

My 4 year-old next door neighbor uses the other Southern practice - I am Miss Firstname. I never correct him to explain that I worked very hard to be a Mrs. and could he please get it right?

I find it charming. Just like if he forgets and just calls me Firstname, that's fine too - that's how we were introduced.

I consider myself a feminist, but I kind of think Senator Boxer was overthinking this one a little too hard.

Respect

By: jams78 | Sun, 06/21/2009 - 17:06

The General was being respectful by addressing her as ma'am. Military people address their superiors as "sir" or "ma'am" and their subordinates by their title. She clip of her asking to be referred to as Senator she came across as snotty. Not a smart political move.

Just like my mom

By: iar | Fri, 06/19/2009 - 12:49

I agree that she had every right to correct him, and I saw nothing wrong with her saying why she was correcting him. My mom's a doctor, and when I was a kid if any of my friends ever called her Mrs. [Last name], she would tell them to either call her by her first name or call her Dr. [Last name]. I asked her about it, and she told me that she had worked very hard to become a doctor and wanted it to be recognized. To my mom, my grandmother was Mrs. [Last name]. My mom went to medical school in a time and place that were pretty hostile to treating women with respect, so it's an important feminist statement to her to insist on the same respect any male doctor would get. Maybe it isn't necessary now, but it was for a long time. It strikes me as being the same thing with Senator Boxer. And, by not just correcting him but also saying why she did it, she obliquely pointed out that it diminishes her accomplishments not to give her the respect she deserves.

Context is crucial

By: Meredith Simons | Fri, 06/19/2009 - 12:48

I agree with the previous commenter that context is crucial. This man is career military; he's been trained to address any female who might possibly be his superior as "ma'am." I was an Air Force brat, and my dad taught me to address anyone in a position of seniority as "ma'am" or "sir," regardless of age. 

If Pelosi wants to be called "Senator," fine, that's up to her. She should get to choose what she wants to be called. But neither she, nor any other woman, should be offended by a military man instinctively addressing her as "ma'am."

Here's a question though: If "ma'am" bothers you, not from military types, but from salesmen, strangers on the street, etc., how do you want to be addressed? "Hey?" "Excuse me?" Does English offer us any good ways of getting the attention of a woman whose name and title we don't know?

Context

By: _Nancy_ | Fri, 06/19/2009 - 15:45

I was once courted by a West Point Cadet who also happened to be the grandson of a very famous general. It was the year before they were allowed to wear jeans. He may even have been wearing the monkey suit. He stopped by my parent's house because he happened to be in the neighborhood but I wasn't there. He was very stiff and formal and waited with my mother on the off chance I might return (yes, this was in the days before cell phones). He made polite conversation puncutating every thing with "ma'am". My mother asked him to call her by her name to which he replied "yes Ma'am". He tried but he kept falling into the "ma'am" thing so my mother, who had also grown weary with hearing about West Point, threatened to make him wait on the porch if he called he "ma'am" again. He replied "yes Ma'am, sorry Ma'am". He waited on the porch and then said his goodbyes when I did not return.

I really think this "ma'am" stuff is ground into Army officers - especially West Point types - to the point that they no longer realize they're doing it. It's also a bit of a "Southern" thing too. I'm absolutely sure that's where it came from and than no disrespect was intended. I'm sure it was still annoying but things don't change over night and West Point changes several decades after everything else.

Sir v Ma'am and other titles

By: misslkodell | Fri, 06/19/2009 - 11:26

In my opinion sir automatically conveys respect both in and out of the armed services, while ma'am conveys respect in the armed services and age/respect out of service. Then we have Mrs. which can be taken offensively by unmarried women and married women who prefer Ms. I think that Ms. is something most women would prefer because it conveys respect while not assuming marriage thus respecting women's choices in their lives. Miss on the other hand makes me think of a girl being reprimanded. To my ear Miss is short and curt while Ms. has a z instead of an s as a way to tell the difference in someones speech. I do not appreciate being called ma'am though and think Senator Boxer was right to correct the General.