XX Factor: the blog

Nerd Alert!

In partnership with the Washington Post Magazine, we'll debate a new question each week and invite you to join in. This week: Research suggests that a “nerdy” environment—one that includes Star Wars paraphernalia, computer games, and junk food—can turn women off from careers in computer science. What sort of factors would you say make a work environment unattractive or unwelcoming to women?

Hanna Rosin: At DoubleX, we insist on pink wallpaper and pictures of Gloria Steinem. Just kidding. Not to sound unsympathetic, but it seems to me that Darth Vader and Doritos are a vast improvement over pinups and boob jokes. Maybe we can mandate that offices full of developers have a Wii, so that gaming remains strictly gender-neutral.

Dahlia Lithwick: Star Wars paraphernalia, computer games, and junk food—you've just described every room in my house.

KJ Dell'Antonia: I think this "nerdy environment" thing is just another way to say that women perceive computer science as a male field. Some women love to polish up their lightsabers and charge right into that; others don't, and all the Barbie computer games in the world aren't going to change that. Programs that encourage women to enter a field, scholarships, schools seeking out female students—those are the things that put women into classrooms and later, into those work environments. That's when we bring in the pink wallpaper. With pictures of Gloria—and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, of course.

Ellen Tarlin: Yes, I'd have to say the main thing that makes work environments unfriendly to women is people who work there who are unfriendly to women or who exclude them either intentionally or unintentionally. Plenty of women like Star Wars, computer games, and junk food and don't need to work in offices that look like the pages of Martha Stewart Living magazine.

Comments

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it's the money honey

By: GingerR | Mon, 02/08/2010 - 09:07

I went into Computer Science post-college. I had a degree in Economics and saw that the better paid people in the environment I worked in were in IT.

I was one of two women Economics majors at my small college. All the REALLY smart girls were Math majors but that wasn't going to work for me.

I'm afraid I think the problems started for me back in Junior High when Algebra was hard. It kept on through High School as Math classes were taught and populated by Male Coaches or Jocks. Not a place for girls. I think that has changed since the 70s, but I doubt it's done a 360 turnaround.

However, business-related Computer Science does not require one to be a Math major. At the time I was in college Computer Science was a Math activity and that put women like myself off.

In the end for me it's about work I enjoy and MONEY. I love solving problems and IT work is full of them. I love the independence that a good salary brings. For me the combination of the two has kept me interested and in the field. I never had a desire to save the world. Unless you think getting your bill to you promptly is helping people I never had much desire to do that either. What I wanted was to have a family and be able to provide them with the things they need. So far it's worked out for me.

Books

By: Bear | Fri, 02/05/2010 - 16:50

I read anything By Butcher including short stories. and i am a cat person, just not the "hang in there" kitten poster type. I have recently gotten into more alternative history, in part because my actual knoweledge of history improved and i could appreciate it more.

Frankly I'm just glad some nerdy women spoke up. As a male nerd, we love you gals, and it's a little odd that the larger world seems unable to accept that for some girls and women nerdy is not a fall back position, it's their comfort zone.

Bear's books

By: SLS | Wed, 02/03/2010 - 02:12

Somewhat OT, but...
Hey Bear, do you read the Dresden or Calderon books by Butcher (or both)? For the record, kittens and macrame (well at least the macrame, I like a cute kitty or LOLcat every now and then) would disturb me more than Yoda or Drizz't figurines.

Women are geeks too, when given the chance

By: Biotunes | Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:17

Ideas like this are just a way to perpetuate sexism. Saying "women don't work here because they wouldn't like the culture" is no different from saying the same thing about blacks. Doesn't seem so innocent now, does it? Women aren't computer scientists because many forces work against women when they try to become scientists of any sort, starting with the opinions of jokers like Larry Summers.

Comfort

By: Bear | Mon, 02/01/2010 - 18:14

I think the point of the Bloggers' comments has been comfort. "Normal" Women aren't comfortable in the den's of the Nerd.

Having already emasculated myself by professing my nerdy-ness, I think I can go a step further. I am a social worker. I am a Man who works in the most feminine professional enviromnent i know of,though i have never worked at XX offices.

And I'll back up the inverse of the question. I am uncomfortable at times to be surrounded by so much estrogen. It is odd to hear all the details of multiple pregnancy/birth/menstral cycle over the lunch table. The amount of time dedicated to celebrity dating drama, and home remedy's is off putting as well. I am uncomfortable with a lot of the atmosphere of where I work, not because the women are trying to freak me out, or even because I am uncomfortable with women, but beecause it is just not my scene, or my interest. so i go off by myself at lunch, and let the girls be themselves.

That having been said I do love my job and my coworkers. I just need to bail on the lunch table on occasion (to read my Jim Butcher or S.M. Stirling). they all accept that and accept me. and it can work. I think people put too much emphisis on the compatability of your life and your work space. I am at work to work, and no-one can drive me away with kitten posters or macrame, I assume the same should be true of women daunted by starwars figurines?

Nerd alert

By: lfenn | Mon, 02/01/2010 - 16:46

I have to agree with most of the comments. I've worked in an IT capacity for 15 years, usually among a large contingent of males. We used to joke about who was the nerdiest, and I am glad to say it was never me!

Seriously, there was a time when girls were not encouraged as much as boys to do well in math and sciences. ("Its too hard!") I was a business major.

I raised two daughters, and also encouraged math and technology as a Girl Scout leader - both of my daughters did very well in math and sciences and went a lot farther with advanced classes than I did. Today students use technology at an earlier age, hopefully that encourages both sexes to consider computer technologies as careers.

Not Just the Boys...

By: Loni2Shoes | Mon, 02/01/2010 - 14:38

I actually started out as a Computer Science major in college but was discouraged by a (female) professor from the continued pursuit of a CS degree. She actually told me that, because I was "female and pretty" I should instead consider a career in Information Systems (the closest equivalent to a CS degree from the College of Business). Sadly it's not always a male-dominated environment that might discourage women from entering CS. :-(

Female nerd, who works with female nerds.

By: DEDEEBORU | Mon, 02/01/2010 - 12:49

This "study" sounds suspect to me. I'd like to see how they constructed it (sample size, sample selection, etc.).

Women can geek out.

Granted, I'm a woman, have a science/techie career, a comic book collection, a love of "radiation theater," etc. I may be biased.

Socially, we need to stop telling girls what's feminine and punishing them socially for doing something slightly outside that box. If you are female, all you do is by default feminine. I think by segregating things and activities into male and female we do ourselves a disservice. If you want more women in the field, stop making a big deal about how there are no women in the field. Make the opportunities to excel available and women will take them.

confession

By: Bear | Mon, 02/01/2010 - 12:06

I am A nerd, I play D&D, and I am the local tech guy at my office (unoficially). That said my girlfriend can whip my ass at starwars trivia, and many computer games. Some of us nerds are very socially successful. My D&D group is a bunch of married guys and gals with kids. We as a group have been successful at dating, mating, and life in general. Many of us played a sport long ago, we just happen to like the lord of the rings more than the stupid-bowl. As a grown up nerd, I'm not professioanlly into IT, or computers except what i can play with.

the reality you are all ignoring is that computer nerds now own the world. My friends pull down huge salaries to fix the stuff you all rely on to post/read this blog or do your jobs. Computer tech and IT is now the necessary job market for our generation, and it is seen as successfull. I think that is why more men are jumping in to it, becasue it pays, and has social cachet.

I think as people mature, the idea of a polite and intelligent person tends to become more appealing than simply the strongest, biggest person in the room. Social success is about more than high school cliques. those of yopu who are not nerds might be surprised by how many of your partners secretly watch galactica, or drool over Aragorn.