Just Call Us "Women Used by the Blogosphere"

There's plenty of reasons to

By: melissagiragrant | Wed, 09/02/2009 - 11:58

There's plenty of reasons to critique the radical feminist arguments against sex work that come from female-bodied feminists. This panel was dedicated to celebrating feminist men. I just wish there had been more of them on it.

problem is not male feminists BUT the radical feminist stance

By: p.bateman | Wed, 09/02/2009 - 04:48

i agree with manobon. the problem is not with male feminists ( i dunno why Melissa singles out male feminists) but with the idiotic, hasbeen sex-negative stance of radical feminists. and these can be men and women both. lets not forget the crazy Andrea Dworkin and Steinem types.

If you don't understand male feminists...

By: manobon | Tue, 09/01/2009 - 14:56

...then that's probably where you should end your speculation.

I really liked how the whole post took time to present examples of humans who happened to be men in the author's life, that really did represent the ideal of feminism. I was about to include the phrase, "...despite not being a women", but that would have only repeated the absurd notion that "female feminists"- those working toward fair treatment of everyone- the only kind.

The article really cut through the garbage of the anti-sex/prostitution/porn that was the basis of Robert Brannon's ...behaviors, I want to say? (Just as one of the commenters above did)

Which is why I was so surprised that Melissa Gira Grant went with this as her "pull quote"-
"If men like Brannon want to do right by women, if they want what they tell women they want, they need to do what men are socialized (sorry, guys!) to be really lousy at: ask before doing something that takes such control of our bodies and our lives, ask and listen and not in some awful “active listening” way that really just reminds us of yet another guy wanting to get down our pants, ask and listen and don’t you dare tell another woman she has nothing worth listening to because she has been “used” by the system or by men or whoever, when what you really mean is, “let me use you for myself, for my own career and my own political ends.” How wonderful, a voiceless mass of women to invoke as your beneficiaries. How awful, when any of us do show up."

"If men like Brannon," certainly seems to start to limit the targeted scope of people for her argument...until she gets to the 'men are socialized' and 'wanting to get down our pants' parts.

If women like Grant want people to 'really listen, and not active listen', maybe such tired assumptions (which could also be applied to lesbians, bi-sexuals, or anyone else that Could want to get into a woman's pants) should be left out of decent arguements. Brannon has terrible ideas- that's pretty obvious, and that might have to do with his inability (and the organizations he works with?) to listen to sex workers (yes, of all genders or 'types'), but to more-than-imply that it has to do with his sex/gender is just hypocrisy.

radical sex-negative feminists can STFU

By: p.bateman | Tue, 09/01/2009 - 11:48

absolutely loved this article.
goes on to show the bigoted stance of the radical feminists on issues like prostitution, pornography, stripclubs etc. no matter how much contemporary feminists try to banish them as the "bad eggs among us" the fact is that they are very much part of the mainstream.
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no matter how much you debate with these radical feminists and talk about the ground realities, they are not willing to change their firmly held belief that selling sex is always exploitation/degradation of a woman. i hate their classic argument that "no woman will ever do this work if given a free choice...its simply not worth it"
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let me clarify something...these radical, anti-porn, anti-prostitution, sex-negative feminists' main problem is NOT the poor conditions that many prostitutes work in, their problem is NOT trafficking, coercion, manipulation of women into sex work. their main problem is NOT rape/beatings/abuse of prostitutes at the hands of pimps, police and customers....their main problem is NOT the high risk of disease...
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their real problem is much more BASIC than that. its a problem of principle that selling sex is inherently an act that degrades the female body. so whether its an AIDS stricken prostitute in Calcutta who does it to feed her starving children and is often raped OR its a high end call girl working in nevada working of her own free will, these bigoted feminists believe both is wrong, disgusting and exploitation and degradation of women at the hands of 'patriarchy'.
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no they dont honour the choices of free women working in this line. they infantilize womens choices.

male feminists

By: ghantol | Tue, 09/01/2009 - 10:40

i have never understood male feminists myself. they seem to be guys who in their childhood/teenages didnt get the attention of girls and later on become feminist because deep down they were looking for approval of women. an approval they couldnt get by being a conventional guy who is pretty oblvious of what current issues in feminism are. 'so there is always a tendency among them to outdo, be louder than the average feminist and adopt a more 'radical' stance. sometimes women feminists actually have a good laugh about them secretly that they are being such hardliners, so outspoken and so supportive of their cause that it almost seems fake! these guys always seem to be under pressure to prove their loyalty to feminists cause. they often appear to hate their own gender.

the other type of guys who become feminists are gay.